Choice/Inevitable

[LostFreak21]

When John and Abbaddon where at the cemetary talking and Abbaddon says Helen died of a brain Anurism-hmmm bloody nose type- they are talking about John dying. Abbaddon says is it inevitable or a choice that he dies? Inevidible would be Ben killing him a choice would be suicide right? For Widemore was he suppose to kill himself, which would be a choice and for Ben was it inevitable for Ben him to kill him?

[ortrules]

That entire conversation was very interesting. Here's a transcript:

LOCKE: She loved me. If I had just... [sighs] we could've been together.
ABADDON: Maybe you could have. That wouldn't change anything. She'd still be gone.
LOCKE: Would she?
ABADDON: Helen is where she's supposed to be. As sad as it is, her path led here. And your path, no matter what you did or what you do, your path leads back to the Island.
LOCKE: You say that like it's all det--inevitable.
ABADDON: Mr. Widmore told me Richard Alpert said that you were going to die. So you tell me, John. Is that inevitable, or is it a choice?
LOCKE: What, you think I wanna die? How is that... how could you possibly think that's a choice?
ABADDON: Hey... I'm just your driver.

The prime of the conversation seems to go back to the entire faith vs science aspect of the show. Is everything determined or are you given choices along the way?

It is somewhat similar to Desmond's visions about Charlie. Desmond could have kept saving Charlie over and over, but it was inevitable that Charlie would die. And in the end, Charlie made the choice to die to save everyone else.

[LostFreak21]

So how was it better that Ben killed him rather than John killing himself?

[tpbaxter]

Originally Posted by LostFreak21

So how was it better that Ben killed him rather than John killing himself?

who said it was better? either way it looked like Locke was going to die that night. if Linus did not enter the room Locke would have killed himself.

um... maybe that is why Linus is evil; he is rebelling against our imperfect god's will.

somewhere back i tried to argue that the moral of this story is that the future is determined by an imperfect god and any rebellion against His will is Evil...

[ortrules]

Originally Posted by LostFreak21

So how was it better that Ben killed him rather than John killing himself?

I don't think it was better. I think Locke was supposed to make the choice to kill himself and Ben interfered.

[bunnydixon]

it was inevitable he was gonna die - either he was gonna kill himself or ben was gonna do it for him lol

[islander]

Thanks for posting that dialogue ORT. In a sick way I thought Locke's death was funny:

He tells Abaddon, "Do you think I want to die?"
Then he changes his mind and prepares to kill himself...
Then Ben talks him out of it....
Then Ben kills him.

Way to go John....way to control your own destiny....someone remind me why the island chose HIM?

[DNIYM]

My thought on this is much simpler - based on that convo, it was clear that Locke hadn't even considered suicide as an option up to that point. So, Matthew was the one who planted the seed and we know he worked for Widmore and we also know that he gets people to where they need to be and John is feeble-minded. Seems like it was manipulation on the part of Matthew to me....

[LostFreak21]

Originally Posted by DNIYM

My thought on this is much simpler - based on that convo, it was clear that Locke hadn't even considered suicide as an option up to that point. So, Matthew was the one who planted the seed and we know he worked for Widmore and we also know that he gets people to where they need to be and John is feeble-minded. Seems like it was manipulation on the part of Matthew to me....

Very good thinking! I keep trying to make Ben the bad one. Just when I think for sure he is something like this comes up. Good job.

[gingergrant]

Aaah! So Ben killing John was just him keeping John from dying to fill Widmores agenda, it was then a matter of John dying to fill Ben's agenda. Got it!