Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathMag84
I want to say that Cooper was brought there via "Magic Box", then again him being brought there by the sub on a previous trip is more believeable. But we are talking about Lost, so i don't think Ben was lying about the magic box, also how would "The Others" know that Locke was coming at that time to have Cooper ready for him when he showed up? Hopefully that makes sense and remember that Ben said Locke brought him (Cooper) to the island not them (The Others).
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Thanks for your insight!
I can never seem to put my finger on wether I believe the 'Magic Box' is metaphorical or not. I guess id like to think that it really is Magical. Anything is possible on Lost right? Maybe the 'Magic Box' has something to do with the way Richard gets on and off the island, is it a portal of some kind.. hmmm. as far as how Ben/the others would know to have Cooper maybe since Ben had done so much research on the survivors of 815, he knew he could use Cooper as some sort of a manipulation over Locke at some point. We often see how easy Locke falls for Ben's Doe eyes!!
Anyways i was doing some research on that episode and it seems to me that Ben is A liar, always will be, he lied to Locke about being born on the island, 'being there his entire life', IMO ben could be using the metaphorical magic box to manipulate him once again. Not saying that this 'box' doesnt exist, but im not convinced that John somehow brought Cooper to the island, i think richard went and 'got' him , whatever that means, as a means to further manipulate Locke. Which brings me back to my original question.. how the frick does Richard get on and off that island, is he the only one who can do that and supossedly he can bring people with him, maybe even both ways, back and forth. anyways thanks for making the DW in my mind spin some more
Here is all of the related dialog between Locke/Ben/Alpert in the episode
"the Man from Tallahassee" (i tried to go through and highlight the pertinent convo!)
BEN: Richard? Wait a minute.
TOM: I'll wait outside.
[Locke raises his gun warily. Tom leaves. Richard Alpert, his back to Locke, walks closer to Ben.]
BEN: I want you to bring me the man from Tallahassee.
[Locke narrows his eye, confused.]
ALPERT: What do you need him for?
BEN: Just do it. Now.
ALPERT: OK.
[Locke looks questioningly at Alex. Alpert leaves. Locke and Alex come out.]
LOCKE: [checking to make sure they've left] The man from Tallahassee? What is that? Some kind of code?
BEN: No, John, unfortunately we don't have a code for "There's a man in my closet with a gun to my daughter's head." Although we obviously should.
______
BEN: What's in the pack, John? If you met Mikhail that means you were in the communications station. Which means you found the explosives. So you're not planning to pilot the submarine anywhere, are you? You're planning to destroy it.
I know you, John Locke.
LOCKE: You don't know me at all.
BEN: I know you were born in California. I know you were raised in foster care. I know you wasted a big part of your life in Tustin, pushing papers at a company that manufactured industrial boxes. I know you spent the four years prior to your arrival on this island in a wheelchair. And I know how you ended up in it. Tell me, John. Did it hurt?
[The side of Locke's mouth twitches as he looks down at Ben.]
LOCKE: I felt my back break. What do you think?
______
BEN: It wasn't easy, you know. Being in that hatch with you all that time. Knowing you had no business walking around. Knowing I couldn't even ask you about it without telling you who I really was.
LOCKE: So ask me now. [closes the drapes] Now that I know who you really are.
[Ben wheels his wheelchair over to Locke.]
BEN: [excitedly] Was it immediate? It started the moment you got here?
LOCKE: [smiling slightly] Yeah.
BEN: And you were just walking? The feeling returned right after the crash? That day?
LOCKE: That's what immediate means, Ben. You’re wondering why it hasn't happened for you. You're not recovering as fast as you'd like. How long has it been since Jack fixed you? A week? Now that I think about it, how'd you get sick in the first place?
BEN: Are you afraid it'll go away, John? Is that why you want to destroy the submarine? Because you know if you ever leave this island you'll be back in the chair?
______
BEN: [rolls over to Locke] I was born on this island. Not many of my people can say that. Most of them were recruited and brought here and as much as they love this place, as much as they would do anything to defend it, they need to know they can leave if they want to. The sub maintains that illusion.
LOCKE: So you're lying to them?
BEN: [exasperated] No! They're here because they want to be here! Some of them are just not ready to make a full... commitment yet. But you, John... You've already made that commitment.
[Locke glances at Ben while holding a glass of water.]
BEN: And now you have a choice. Because if you stop and if you think, I can show you things. Things I know you want to see very badly. Let me put it so you'll understand. Picture a box. You know something about boxes, don't you, John? What if I told you that somewhere on this island, there's a very large box... and whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be in it, when you opened that box, there it would be. What would you say about that, John?
LOCKE: I'd say I hope that box is big enough to imagine yourself up a new submarine. [drinks the water]
BEN: [looking away and smiling slightly] Why are you so angry, John?
LOCKE: Because you're cheating! You and your people. [puts down his glass and walks around the room] Communicate with the outside world whenever you want to, you... you come and go as you please... you use electricity and running water and guns... You're a hypocrite! A pharisee. You don't deserve to be on this island. If you had any idea what this place really was... you wouldn't be putting chicken in your refrigerator!
BEN: You've been here 80 days, John; I've been here my entire life! So how is it that you think you know this island better than I do?
LOCKE: Because you're in the wheelchair, and I'm not.
_____
BEN: [urgently] John, before you go you should know--! [Locke turns] Jack and I made a deal. In less than an hour he's leaving this island on that submarine, and it's a one-way ticket. The anomaly wiped out our communications. We have no way of contacting the outside world. Which means when that sub leaves, it can never come back. So whether you destroy the submarine or whether you let it go, the end result is the same. No one will find this island.
LOCKE: [to Alex] Let's go. [he walks away with Alex, who glances back at Ben] Come on.
[They leave. Cut to outside the house.]
ALEX: You know he's manipulating you, right?
LOCKE: How's that?
ALEX: That's what my father does. He manipulates people. He makes you think it's your idea, but it's his.
LOCKE: I'll have to keep that in mind.
______
[Cut to Locke, handcuffed to an overhead pipe in a dark room. Ben and Alpert come into the room to talk to John.]
BEN: Well, John, you've really gone and done it now.
LOCKE: You don't have to pretend to be disappointed anymore. We both know you wanted it to happen. That's why you left the C-4 in Sayid's bag: because you wanted me to make it happen.
BEN: Uncuff him please, Richard.
[Alpert goes to release Locke.]
ALPERT: You going to do anything stupid?
LOCKE: No, sir.
[Alpert releases Locke.]
BEN: Do you remember earlier, John, when you called me a cheater? When you said I didn't deserve to live on this island? Well get this: there I was, shaking hands with Jack, and thinking I'd give almost anything to come up with a way to stop him from leaving... because to let him go would be a sign of weakness, of failure, of defeat. People would see that. They would know it. And that, John, would be the end of me. But to kill him... that would be cheating, because my people also heard me make a promise, and to break my word... that would be the end of me too. And then you came striding out of the jungle, John, to make my dream come true.
LOCKE: You're not going to start talking about the magic box again, are you?
BEN: No, John. I'm going to show you what came out of it.
[Alpert pulls Locke up. Ben wheels out of Locke's room, and Alpert forces Locke out and closes the door. Alpert wheels Ben down the hall, and Locke follows beside, rubbing his arm.]
BEN: When I asked you earlier if it hurt when you suffered your injury, I think you misunderstood me. Seems fairly obvious that when a person's back smashes into a hard surface after being thrown from a building, that that's going to sting a little. But I really wasn't asking about the physical pain.
LOCKE: What, do you want to know if it hurt my feelings?
BEN: No John. I wanted to know what it felt like when your own father tried to kill you.
[Alpert, Ben, and Locke stop moving.]
BEN: He's the reason you destroyed the submarine, isn't he? You're afraid. You're afraid of him and this is the one place he can never find you. This is the one place he can never get to.
LOCKE: What do you want from me?
BEN: I don't know how it happened, but you seem to have some communion with this island, John, and that makes you very, very important. You have no idea what you're talking about, of course, but in time you'll have a better understanding of things. So what do I want? I want to help you, John.
LOCKE: Why?
BEN: Because I'm in a wheelchair and you're not. Are you ready to see?
[Alpert opens the door to the cell. Locke cautiously looks inside of the room. Inside he sees Cooper, tied to a chair, gagged, and covered with cuts and bruises. He looks terrified.]
LOCKE: Dad?
How does Richard Alpert travel to and from the island pre-Sub?
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